Help needed

Anything else
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mike
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Help needed

Post by mike » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:14 am

There's a matter with NC in which this small community can help - so why don't we check this out?
Most of the file managers for macOS have a page in Wikipedia devoted to an app.
Hell, even the "CRAX Experience"(TM) has its own page there.
And, at the same time, Nimble Commander hasn't, which is a shame.

I could write it on my own, but:
a. IMHO it's unethical to do so.
b. Such affiliation is against the Wikipedia's rules.

So, the question is - can we collaborate a bit and make a decent page for this project?

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bchuter
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Re: Help needed

Post by bchuter » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 am

Hi Mike

I have kicked this off : :ugeek:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimble_Commander

I started off by copying and pasting from the website, however the page was marked for quick deletion as "Promotional"
I have contested the deletion and started re-writing the page.

Can you please give me some detailed history on Nimble Commander.
When was it first released
what was it originally called and what date did it change
what lang is it written in (C++ ?)
etc etc.....
so that i can write up something on the page.


Others, please feel free to contribute / edit the page
Bradley Chuter

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mike
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Re: Help needed

Post by mike » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:15 pm

bchuter wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 am
I started off by copying and pasting from the website, however the page was marked for quick deletion as "Promotional"
I have contested the deletion and started re-writing the page.
Wonderful, thanks! Lets hope it won't be deleted again.

I'll try to answer below:
bchuter wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 am
When was it first released
That's already mentioned correctly - 1 May 2013.
bchuter wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 am
what was it originally called and what date did it change
Originally it was called simply "Files", this title was changed in v1.1.2 (7 June 2016).
bchuter wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 am
what lang is it written in (C++ ?)
Mostly in C++ and Objective-C++, some parts are written in C.

You also asked about an icon image in a good quality via email.
Actually, the .icns file shipped with the app contains many representations, i.e. there're variants with different resolutions there.

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bchuter
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Re: Help needed

Post by bchuter » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:29 pm

mike wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:15 pm
bchuter wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 am
I started off by copying and pasting from the website, however the page was marked for quick deletion as "Promotional"
I have contested the deletion and started re-writing the page.
Wonderful, thanks! Lets hope it won't be deleted again.

I'll try to answer below:
bchuter wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 am
When was it first released
That's already mentioned correctly - 1 May 2013.
bchuter wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 am
what was it originally called and what date did it change
Originally it was called simply "Files", this title was changed in v1.1.2 (7 June 2016).
bchuter wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 am
what lang is it written in (C++ ?)
Mostly in C++ and Objective-C++, some parts are written in C.

You also asked about an icon image in a good quality via email.
Actually, the .icns file shipped with the app contains many representations, i.e. there're variants with different resolutions there.
Great stuff

I have spent a few hours on this now.
So i really hope it does not get deleted :lol:

please have a look at the following (these are links on the NC page referencing other pages) and make sure i have correctly
stated the capabilities of NC in each section......ive added NC in many places :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... e_managers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... n_software
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... t_software
Bradley Chuter

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bchuter
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Re: Help needed

Post by bchuter » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:40 pm

I have done some more work and reworded some of the page to include your comments above.

I have added the NC icon image to the page (looking good!!!) :ugeek:

Think the page is coming on nicely.

I have spent allot of time linking NC into other pages and references and categories etc
Bradley Chuter

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bchuter
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Re: Help needed

Post by bchuter » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:50 am

Well.....

The page got deleted !!!
I have been in a back and fourth with the moderator and he is just simply rude!!!

The Wikipedia page Nimble Commander has been deleted on 9 September 2017 by
Alex Shih, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimble_Commander.


Hi Alex My page for Nimble Commander was deleted by you. I did contest the deletion on the talk page of this page, I am new to Wikipedia and started off by copying content from the application website. This is when it was marked for deletion. I then subsequently removed all content and re-wrote the entire page. It conformed to other application pages such as Total Commander and CRAX Commander which have been approved and been on this site for a very long time. Please can you restore this page as it took me a very long time to create this page and link it other sources and mentions on references etc. Or please let me know what i did wrong on this page so that i can correct this. Many thanks Bchuter (talk) 05:56, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

@Bchuter: What sources? Three download links and a link to the official forum? Come on. Your other examples are both problematic pages also, and should be tagged accordingly. Alex ShihTalk 06:07, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

@Hi Alex Please see : Comparison_of_file_managers , Comparison_of_file_verification_software and Comparison_of_FTP_client_software Please so i understand, after i delete the page in its entirety and then recreated it in what i did not feel was promotional can you please highlight where i went wrong ? so that i may correct this in future. Is there no chance then of my page being restored ? I thank you for your time. Bchuter (talk) 06:23, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

@Bchuter: Sorry, I cannot help you if you are not going to be transparent. What do you want me to see? That you added your software to all of these three pages? This is exactly what promotional means when the subject doesn't meet the notability guideline. For specific guideline, please see Wikipedia:Notability (software). Alex ShihTalk 06:28, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

@Hi Alex, Firstly, I have no affiliation with the creator of this software, so the software is not "my software". I simply wanted to create a page highlighting this software, what it was, who created it, how long its been going etc etc Adding it into Comparison_of_file_managers , Comparison_of_file_verification_software and Comparison_of_FTP_client_software serves as a direct comparison on features available against all the other software mentioned on these pages and i still dont see how this is promotional ? if this is the case, then.... Comparison_of_file_managers , Comparison_of_file_verification_software, Comparison_of_FTP_client_software, Total Commander, CRAX Commander and all software (with related pages) mentioned on all these pages therein should be deleted ? Bchuter (talk) 06:44, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
The page i was referred to..... :!:
Bradley Chuter

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bchuter
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Re: Help needed

Post by bchuter » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:01 am

For the curious, this is what the page looked like :
Screen Shot 2017-09-09 at 9.00.06 AM.png
Screen Shot 2017-09-09 at 9.00.06 AM.png (328.14 KiB) Viewed 6067 times
Bradley Chuter

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mike
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Re: Help needed

Post by mike » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:55 pm

Oh crap, that was harsh! :(
I don't know what kind of notability do they want - perhaps a citation in a scientific paper? [sarcasm]
The moderation looks more like a random generator.
Anyway, many thanks for your attempt, it's great to see such involvement.

sasha
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Re: Help needed

Post by sasha » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:09 pm

I agree with Mike, the communication with the Wikipedia admin was unnecessarily harsh. However, I do understand that the article was taken down. Statements like
"It is very lightweight and very responsive, something which the many alternatives seem to struggle with."
"It is a very good alternative to the well-known Total Commander."
lack objectivity and don't belong into an encyclopedia. No hard feelings @bchuter, I was really impressed by your commitment.

So if we neglect the admin's harshness, he clearly states that so far, the article didn't provide enough evidence for NC's notability. He then referenced the source where one can look up what "notability" means:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... (software)

Besides the advice of avoiding "peacock terms" and "weasel words" (see the two examples above), there is a list of criteria for inclusion. So of course, @Mike, a scientific paper would probably work perfectly :) Or a review from an independent website or an independent author - it doesn't have to be Macworld or John Gruber, but something in that direction.

I personally like NC a lot, it's my primary file manager and like most of us here I've used all the alternatives before. We probably all prefer it to e.g. the CRAX experience (tm), but they undoubtedly did meet some of Wikipedia's inclusion criteria.

If it's important for you guys to have NC included in Wikipedia, let's not take the deletion personal, try again following the guidelines, write a short, objective paragraph about the features and add citations/references from objective sources. The best I could find are

http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Utilities/Files.shtml
https://lifehacker.ru/2016/06/13/nimble-commander (russian!)
Perhaps there are more?

Mike, maybe there are other ways than Wikipedia to promote NC? I'm no expert, but for example, you give away a few licenses to some Mac tech blogs and get a review in exchange.

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bchuter
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Re: Help needed

Post by bchuter » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:49 pm

or......

You install your own Wiki and do what ever you want :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://revils.co.za/mediawiki/index.php ... _Commander
Bradley Chuter

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