Does NC have a future? C++

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JayB
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Does NC have a future? C++

Post by JayB » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:07 pm

I heard from another developer that Apple has significantly impeded file system performance of C++ code in High Sierra, and that related APIs will even be removed. Regarding NC, I'm reading on GitHub that "Xcode9 is not supported by the codebase due to the Objective-C++ compatibility issue, which appeared in Xcode9", but I can't say if that has anything to do with it. At any rate, there hasn't been any apparent development for many months since v1.2.4. So how does the future of Nimble Commander look? A Swift or Objective-C rewrite maybe?

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mike
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Re: Does NC have a future? C++

Post by mike » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:59 am

JayB wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:07 pm
I heard from another developer that Apple has significantly impeded file system performance of C++ code in High Sierra, and that related APIs will even be removed.
Not sure what this can mean. MacOS is a UNIX operating system, its core syscalls are exposed via plain C interface.
JayB wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:07 pm
Regarding NC, I'm reading on GitHub that "Xcode9 is not supported by the codebase due to the Objective-C++ compatibility issue, which appeared in Xcode9", but I can't say if that has anything to do with it.
It was a compiler bug in clang, there's nothing to do with macOS itself. It's possible to reproduce the same bug on Linux or Windows.
The bug was fixed in Xcode10.
JayB wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:07 pm
At any rate, there hasn't been any apparent development for many months since v1.2.4. So how does the future of Nimble Commander look? A Swift or Objective-C rewrite maybe?
Heh, I can only wish a good luck to anybody who might try rewriting such a massive codebase, especially keeping the same performance :)
The major issue with NC is that this project doesn't bring any reasonable income to justify further investment of time and energy.

rail4you
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Re: Does NC have a future? C++

Post by rail4you » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:04 am

NC is good enough now, much better than many other third party file manager.

The development of a file manager will take really long time. Total Commander is a good example, about 30 years development make TC so powerful. I don't worry about the future of NC. Keep going and fixing bugs.

The price plan is a big thing. I think NC is cheaper than others. Look at fman, https://fman.io/buy, fman only provide one year update but the development of fman is more active than NC.

If NC can publish a new major version in 18 month or 24 month and has a upgrade price plan, the income will be much better. The active development and a better price plan is a good signal to the new users.

JayB
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Re: Does NC have a future? C++

Post by JayB » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:20 am

Well? Then call me relieved to hear that! :) It was just a short exchange, but when he talked about the C++ thing and FS performance, I was just worried, because (like rail4you) I also think that NC is "much better than many other third party file manager"—at the very least; in fact I tested them all, incl. obscure ones like Marta, and NC was the clear winner in my opinion. (Not nice hearing about the income issue, though.)

rail4you
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Re: Does NC have a future? C++

Post by rail4you » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:41 am

JayB wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:20 am
Well? Then call me relieved to hear that! :) It was just a short exchange, but when he talked about the C++ thing and FS performance, I was just worried, because (like rail4you) I also think that NC is "much better than many other third party file manager"—at the very least; in fact I tested them all, incl. obscure ones like Marta, and NC was the clear winner in my opinion. (Not nice hearing about the income issue, though.)
NC chooses C++ and it has an open source version. C++ is a performace beast, it is the fastest one to deal with file system calls. I read the source code too, the code of NC is elegent. NC is a really high quality software.

I keep using NC for one year, it is far better than path finder, forklift, double commander, one commander and so on. Iet's talk about the future of there file managers. NC is the only hope for me.

Path finder 8 is out, but still buggy, no future.
Forklift is slow
Double commander has the ugly UI
One commander no update for a long time
Marta is too simple
fman is good, but using python as plugin language, speed is a problem.

NC is fast, feature rich, and it is a pure Mac software. Some advanced features in NC are the best I have ever seen, even beyond Total Commander. For example, the terminal feature is godsend.

mherrmann
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Re: Does NC have a future? C++

Post by mherrmann » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:56 pm

Hey guys, fman author here. I was checking out Nimble again because some of my users lauded its performance. Seems like you've done a good job Mike. I'm intrigued by your comment that Nimble doesn't make enough money. I have the same problem with fman (it's at ~$500 per month, not enough to sustain my full-time work in the long run). Are you willing to share how much Nimble makes?

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mike
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Re: Does NC have a future? C++

Post by mike » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:02 am

Hey mherrmann, thanks for your comment.
I can't share exact numbers, but let's say working as a contractor or on 9-5 jobby job brings times more than NC does.

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Re: Does NC have a future? C++

Post by mherrmann » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:41 am

I see, pity. Thank you for sharing though!

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darek
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Re: Does NC have a future? C++

Post by darek » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:50 am

It pains me to see NC in its "early abandonment" stages as I was (emotionally) involved in this tool for a long time. A few quitu thoughts:

This kind of software is definitely niche, but I'd believe it should be able to support a rich lifestyle of a single programmer.

There are people who'd pay well for this stuff (https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/). It's not a Finder replacement for the masses. It's for power users. Specific power users.

I believe NC's problems right now are on the marketing side and its value proposition. What's this for? What do people on Mac look for, what do they need, lack? I don't believe they wake up at night to search for "commander" or "two panel manager". That's what us, dinosaurs from DOS and PC times do (and that's the market Total Commander lives off). On Mac it's different. I've noticed people mental models here are bouncing between Finder and Terminal.

Pathfinder and other tools market themselves as better Finder. Fine enough. Good market for them, maybe.

But NC, because of the great technology and integration with the shell, had the rare opportunity of being a "better Terminal". It would have to sell the concept better though. Pro devs on Mac live in the terminal. They don't see a point of better Finder with two panes. But... something enhancing the terminal that could speed up their workflow? This could work.

And that's what NC does already! It has to be sold to them though.

Sublime Text is a good example and something I've been trying to convince Mike to model upon for a long time :) There were plenty of editors when it came. Initially, when it tried to market itself as a "DirectX based editor" or something like that it did not catch on at all. But then, few years later, they (well, he actually, single programmer) started showing features like multiple cursors and fuzzy search and presented it well with clever animations. And everyone was sold. For $70 dolars a piece :)

It's interesting to see Michael Herrmann (fman) here. I though he did a very good job marketing fman so far and it seems he is in fact modeling after Sublime Text (go to anything feature, etc). I'm watching his blog, posts on Hacker News and he's doing a good work :) It's a pity it's not working out financially that well yet.

But as I said, my opinion is that the macOS devs are not looking for better Finder nor a two panel manager.

They might bite a more powerful terminal idea though :)

dp_
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Re: Does NC have a future? C++

Post by dp_ » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:21 am

darek wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:50 am
There are people who'd pay well for this stuff (https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/).
Thanks so much for the link.

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